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I was recently listening to Manosphere Radio's latest interview, with blogger Wald of Scar Tissue. If you aren't listening to Manosphere Radio's interviews, you should be starting right now.

Wald was discussing an underwhelming date he had had. "I got to the dancefloor and we were dancing swing to club music...things were going alright until she told me 'I don't always follow, sometimes I lead.' I don't like that very much. That just killed most of the night for me right there."

Pete responded: "It's funny, a girl tries to go a little bit masculine on you and you push her away a lot more."

Understanding Backleading In Dance And Romance

As someone who has done some ballroom dance, I can't be sure if Wald's girl was talking about backleading (resisting the lead's kinesthetic instructions that are part and parcel of partner dancing) or actually taking position as the lead with the man following her. I can however confirm the not-uncommon habit of women backleading, many times unapologetically or with a coy sort of "sometimes I backlead, teehee." And I'd be remiss if I didn't communicate to women that backleading is very unattractive to men.

The idea of the lead in good dancing is that you, with your hand on the woman's shoulder, can give her hints as to the forthcoming steps, when she should spin, and the overall fluidity of the dance. It's a classic literal example of "frame" -- for those who saw Dirty Dancing, it's establishing your "dancing space" and not having spaghetti arms -- and part of the social contract of the dance: the lead leads, the follow gets to play in the lead's space.

Generally speaking, women enjoy the follow, as evidenced by their oft-stated desire for a firm, masculine lead on the floor. No one who reads this blog is surprised. However, a subcircuit of girls in dance play up the backlead thing as a sort of dodge or hustle or a "feisty" personality statement. If you are getting a LOT of backleading with multiple partners, you are probably not leading strongly enough. But if a particular partner is very strong with the backlead, she's either not very fluid and not self-aware of that fact, or she's trying to set up a power game. If you think this sounds like a shit test, you're right...sometimes you are being teased and baited into reasserting yourself, where the winning tactical move is to resist her resistance but the strategic move is to take your ball and go home without tolerating unnecessary difficulty. I normally keep a two-strike policy -- the first backlead earns a firm correction with an accompanying warning look. The second is the end of dance for her and I take her off the card for the night. Bad backleads can even get a reputation in a community as someone you don't want to dance with.

Learning Masculinity Through Ballroom Dance Classes

The ballroom dance classes I took as throwaway electives in college were the best unified data-driven introduction to advancing my skills with women I ever had. It's not exaggeration to say they were a key first step in my red-pill journey -- few environments will give you a more open, transparent laboratory into what behaviors women respond to from men. An irresistible woman respects frame and doesn't try to usurp masculine leadership.

The Wald clip dovetailed nicely with a discussion on a recent Just Four Guys thread entitled "MEN: What Do You Wish Women Knew About You?" Part of my commentary was to note that public competition is a boner-killer:

Why Public Competition Destroys Attraction

I have talked with Morpheus a lot about this and we both think that women flat do not understand how incredibly unattractive it is when a woman tries to compete with or one-up her man, especially in public. A woman who is trying to show off that she's better than us portends relationship drama and malignant status anxiety (hypergamy). Women who backlead in dancing has the same effect. Most men (i.e. the ones who are not highly alpha or very extroverted) do not view shit tests or an affected "fesitiness" as a fun sort of play-fighting social game. They view it as profoundly childish and annoying.

I then told a story about a woman I had been seeing who engaged in some public trash talk regarding my favorite sports team. She was instantly gone as a relationship prospect. I continued to date her for a few weeks after that, but strictly for fun; her shot at my commitment died right there. This was mostly subconscious...I didn't make a logical decision, I was just not that interested in bringing her around my friends knowing she might try to humiliate me. (Tell: if a woman describes herself as an "asshole," she almost certainly engages in this kind of behavior with regularity.) Other forms of distasteful one-upping can include rank cursing, raunchy sex talk with the intent to shock, heavy drinking/doing shots, or sex dares. Female archetypes reflect relationship dynamics and the Boss archetype especially struggles with masculine partners.

When I've discussed this sort of behavior with women, I usually get a combination of dumbfounded surprise (some women are apparently not aware that this is such a negative in male eyes) and a sort of confident admission that this is a fitness test. Usually there's a "I need to test him to see if he can stand up for himself!" taunt in there. Sometimes it's a bizarre attempt to "fit in as one of the guys."

Recognizing The Difference Between Assertiveness And Attraction-Killing Behavior

In any case, it's not very effective as a test in the first place. A guy who will fight you (verbally speaking) and a guy who will fight *for* you are two very different things. Whatever drama fantasies a woman may have, most men really have no interest whatsoever in synthesized argument or quarrel with their dating partner. Asserting your needs in a reasonable manner is very different from going looking for trouble to get your dopamine fix.

Let me clear on the predictable objection: this has nothing to do with a man being "weak" or "intimidated" or he "can't handle a strong woman." It's a common trope both in the Manosphere and in real life to speak of the abrasive, one-upping woman who is perpetually single having driven off all suitors yet constantly complains that the reason is that people can't "handle" her self-evident awesomeness.

The plain truth is that this behavior is simply unattractive in the base sense of the word -- it lessens our desire to spend time with you and invest in you. It some cases it can kill our sexual desire even if you are really hot physically. Connecting with women through conversation builds attraction far more effectively than competing with them.

I know it's disheartening to hear something that seems to contradict all that stuff they told you about how important it was to be "large and in charge" and be a Capable Woman and not take any shit from a man all the rest of it. Part of it is sadly mistaken projection, women thinking if they took on the traits they liked in men, they'd be more attractive to men as well. It's not that that stuff isn't worthwhile, it's that you have to have the soft side too if you want to be successful with a man in the long run. And since most women want to have relationships and eventually get married, if you can't develop those personality skills and know how to use them, you're going to miss out on -- or have a bad experience with -- the relationship side of life.

Perhaps this is best explained by analogy. Women reading this: if a dude was constantly emoting to you and trying to get you to validate his feelings, and you weren't exactly turned on by this, would you entertain any assertion that you "couldn't handle a sensitive guy"? Or if he didn't have any earning potential and was content living at a subsistence level, would you consider that maybe you "couldn't handle a poor guy"? Would you think there was something wrong with you that these guys weren't ringing your bell? I can't answer from your mind, but I highly doubt it. These traits are simply unattractive to women in general, and it's socially acceptable to admit it. But in today's culture of the Strong Independent Woman, admitting the corresponding truth -- that masculine behavior and taunting are unattractive to men -- is psychological profanity. If you can grok the truth, you're going to be way ahead of the people you are truly competing with: other women trying to snag the interest of highly-desired men.